Hi from Canada

Discussion in 'Introduce yourself.' started by Sam, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. Sam

    Sam New Member

    i would love To be part of it. in my last message I was replying to Bjorn. I hope I did not make a mistake.
  2. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Sam,
    Thank you very much for reply to my questions.
    Yes, i also love thoose OM-5 and i gonna keep them :)
    According to your experience, it does not seem value enough to change them with OMD-28 or M-1.
    I have read about the OM-1(the one with the bass element on the side) But it seems quite impossible to get.

    Anyway, thansk again Sam for your review of your fantastic Mirage setup over there :)

    Best Regards
    Bjorn
  3. Sam

    Sam New Member

    You are welcome.

    if you can put your hands on the Mirage M-1 you will have maybe the most wonderful speaker Mirage ever done.
    But as I said in my previous message you should drive them with a solid amp.

    Unfortunately the OM 1 was a fantastic project that never seen the day and was pull out by klipsch who bought Mirage.

    Can you tell me what kind of speakers cables you use for the OM 5?
  4. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hello Sam,
    Ok, will have a look on the web and see if i can find a used pair of M1:s - thanks :)
    My equipment is:
    DAC: m2tech - Young DSD
    Amp: https://www.soundandvision.com/poweramplifiers/707linnch
    Pre amp: http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/b/b4/EXOTIK_InfSht_GB.pdf
    And Linn K400 speaker cable http://www.audioreview.com/product/cables/speaker-cables/linn/k400-bi-wire-loudspeaker-cable.html
    Picture: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-K400-Bi-wire-Speaker-Cables-/202417234380

    Seems to be ok for the om-5:s - but maybe not for a pair of m1?
    Or do you think that i need even more power then Linn Chakra 2200 kan produce?
    And: are you referring to M1 or M1si? - Marc Mickelson on Soundstage had the impression that he was very pleased with the M3si but he preferred om-5 over them.
    What is your take on that?
    Thanks in advance.

    Regards
    Bjorn
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  5. Sam

    Sam New Member


    Hi Bjorn,

    your amp is not bad and can deliver up to 200 watts on 4 ohms load, so it is good enough for high sensitivity speakers like the OM 5 speakers. So I am sure you don't hear distortion even at loud sound &High volume. Now for the Mirage M1 or M-1 si is a different story. The M1 or M-1 si need more power to really shine without any distortion. it may be enough for you if you always listen to a moderate volume but you will not hear their sound quality and even more dangerous with the OMD 28.

    The OMD 28 will make your amp very hot because it will demand much more currant in a very fast pace. So the result is distorted sound and the tweeters will blow up.

    Many reviewers prefer the M-3 si over the M-1 si only because the M 1 or the M-1 si is more demanding then the M-3 si. but believe me the first time I heard my M 3 si I was like wow. this speakers are very articulated speakers as it make you hear so much details what ever the sound level is. So it is more articulated than the OM 5.
    The only weakness of the OM 5 is the midrange drivers as they are very fragile.
    So be careful with the sound level, but the base is wonderful and little bit better than the M-3 si, but the soundstage of the OM 5 is more deeper and bigger than the M 3 si. you see there is no abvious advantage in all the frequency and there is no cut answer in all the situation.

    When I met Andrew Walker ( the main designer of the OM 5 and OMD 28) in Montreal I exchange with him during one hour about all the mirage speakers and he agreed with me specifically for the OMD 28. He even recommand using 2 mono block to drive the OMD 28.

    The M1 and M-1 si is very similar but the demand for the M1 was too much high in the market versus the production capacity so they had to find a way to reduce the total production time to fill the demand and that when the M-1 si appear.

    they used to produce all the drivers including the tweeters that been tuned by hand on each speaker. So they had to replace the original tweeters with different design that don't need to be tuned manually and of oyrse replace the midrange drivers with a bigger one and less complicated design. The result is not too much different in term of sound quality but the resolution was better on the original design comparing to the last version. So this change also made the cross over design easier and with less component than the original.

    Concerning your speakers cables I really know nothing about them so I can not give you any opinion about them. But i can say this that if you buy the M 1 or the M-1 si they will become the weakness link in your system. I am sure Morrow can explain it much better than me.

    I hope I answer all your questions and please be sure that you will appreciate every second of your system.

    Take good care and hope one day will meet each other.
  6. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi again Sam and thank you for your in depth explanations.

    Its fantastic that you had the opportunity to meet Andrew Welker, who took over the developement of Mirage speakers from Ian Paisley.
    About my OM-5:s - its sad that just a week ago, one of the subwoofer amplifiers stopped working. I took the loudspeaker apart and transported the amplifier unit, to a place that has a very good reputation in fixing hifi equipments like this, but they told me this friday, that they cant fix it. In Sweden i dont know any service place for Mirage and i dont think its possible to exhange this amplifier stage with something similar, the crossovers will be different and as i understand it, these ones are 100% aligned for this patricular woofers and tweeters.
    Do you have any idea of a solution?

    It would be very sad, not being able to fix thoose OM-5:s. And i recognize what you write about the deep and wide soundscape they produce. I think the bass in the specs says from 20 or 22 hz and that is very obvious when you play certain kind of music.

    Anyway i cant say that the build quality is bad, i have owned them for 13 years and i have played them almost every day, at least 10 hours/day - they have been amazing and have contributed so much for me and my music life.

    Regarding my speaker cables, they are recommended for Linn premium to almost top of the line speakers that costs at least up to30.000-40.000 USD (they have speakers for more then that ofcourse) wich requires at least 400W/channel - so i trust they will do the job..
    Yes, its would have been very nice to meet and listen to your system, its very rare what you seem to have over there(I assume you live in North America)

    Best regards Bjorn :)
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  7. Sam

    Sam New Member


    Hi Bjorn,

    I am really sorry about your om 5 subwoofer. it is really sad because there is no way you can repair and this subwoofer amp is very special and different than any regular amp. But I am sure there is a solution for it by replacing the one you have with a regular subwoofer amp with the same characteristic in terms of power. Don't forget one thing the original one was not like the one we have at the beginning and because the original design was too strong and was difficult to control they design this one with a special control to not overload the signal. So if I were in this situation I will search in the internet for a spare part that may show up on sale.

    you never you may be lucky to find it on the internet. I will do my best to search one for you and If I find something will let you know.

    Now I am sure that we can find a regular amp to replace the one you have and don't worry about the crossover, all what you need is an amp that will control the signal of low frequency around 22 hz.

    it will not be easy but it is feasible.

    I will get back to you soon.
  8. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi Sam,

    Thank you, yes the "expert" in hifi repairs did not have a clue on how to do it.
    Yes its sad.. but the good and surprising thing is how good its possible to keep up with only one 250W subwoofer - the explanation is that bass freq does not bounce straight forward after reflected against the walls and propagate by bending beyond obstacles. But ofcourse its not the same deep and powerfull bass.
    What do you think of this one: https://emnordic-prod-cdn.azureedge...16057AAF90650504C097BE645E5ED60635/549717.pdf

    Well if i cant repair it, maybe its time for Andrew Welkers latest flag ship creation in omnidirectional/bipolar/omnipolar loudspeekers. I read somewhere that he has said that this series is even better and more close to the ideal concept of omnidirectional solutions.
    https://www.axiomaudio.com/omnidirectional-speaker

    What do you think?
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  9. Sam

    Sam New Member


    Hi Bjorn,

    the last speakers design of Andrew Welker is fantastic, I was at Montreal audio show when I met Andrew for the first time and he showed me this speakers and it is really wow I can't blame you to thinking about it because we are used to the onmipolar speakers and they are wonderful.

    I haven't find yet anything for your OM 5 subwoofers. I will continue searching .

    How are you?

    please let me know if you decide to buy axiom speakers. By the way you know you still have the option of buying a good subwoofer that could replace the broken one.

    please keep in touch Bjorn.

    Best regards

    Sam
  10. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi Sam,
    I am fine, listening to OM-5 with one Subw :-D
    How are you?
    Wow! did you had the pleasure to talk to Andrew about the Axiom Omnidirectional speakers and also to listen to them? If so, could you compare them with yout own Mirage ?
    Would you say that Mr Welker made any improvements from Mirage's former flagship models?

    Thank you for advice.
    Yes i just e-mailed Andrew Welker, to get his opinion on what to replace them with. I told him that i am addicted to the soundstage of OM-5 and asked what models he would suggest as better or equal?
    Ok, so you are suggesting that i could change just the subwoofer? But how would i do that? maybe i could ask a HIFI repair/service place to do it..

    Take care and hope to hear from you soon.

    Best Regards
    Bjorn
  11. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    And i also got a very interesting reply from A Welker:

    Hello Bjorn, I am sorry to hear about your OM-5s. Unfortunately the subwoofer amplifiers were built in house by Mirage and there isn't anything I can suggest to replace it.
    Also, while there are models in the Axiom LFR lineup that I believe will give you better overall performance, none will reproduce the extreme low frequencies that your OM-5s were capable of on their own. That being said, I can make a couple of suggestions, depending on your preferences and listening habits.
    Note that all of the models below will require FOUR amplifier channels, so you would need to add another 2-channel amplifier to your current setup with identical gain.

    If you listening to a lot of music and movies with extreme low frequency content, I would suggest a pair of LFR660s along with one or two EP500 subwoofers.
    If you currently use a subwoofer in your system, or don't require the extreme low frequency performance, I would suggest a pair of LFR1100s.

    In either case, my personal belief is that the Axiom LFR series speakers outperform any of the Mirage OM models in terms of midrange balance, accuracy, and imaging, without losing the immersive sound-field of omnis.

    Thanks, Andrew

    Wow, so Andrew really thinks he developed that omni concept even more - sounds very interesting.
    What do you think Sam?
  12. Sam

    Sam New Member

    Hi Bjorn,

    i an glad tchat Andrew replied to your email, because he does not always reply to his emails.

    Now be careful about the EP500, I know that because I bought it several years ago and I had to change the amplifier of the subwoofer for a noise problem and they send me another one. 2 years after the same problem occurred again, and the sound for music is not articulated as I have with my OM 5 subwoofer. So don't buy the EP500 and there is to many other subwoofer model much better for the same price or less.

    Now concerning his last design it is fine and I am sure it is better than his OMD 28. So he had to add an amplifier to his omnipolar speakers to create a better image that is the main weakness of all the omnipolar mirage speakers and the price is too high but if you can afford it do not hesitate. but didn't not forget that you will need to add another amplifier to your system.

    Also don't expect from Andrew anything else than recommand the axiom speakers over Mirage as he is working there. But if you still looking for an omnipolar speakers axiom lfr 1100 is a very good and rare omnipolar option in the market.

    So please keep in touch and just let me know what you will do.

    Thanks
    Sam
  13. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hello Sam,
    Long time since i replayed, it has to do with that i have not succeded until now. The first HIFI service firm, looked at my woofer amp and said after 2 weeks that he could not help me.
    Then i found a second one, after 2 weeks, he said he would need to whole loudspeaker(i un mounted the amp part, due to the weight etc)
    So i transported the speaker to them and after 1 week he said he had found the problem, it was not the amplifier as i thought, it was both of the 8 inch woofer elements that was broken.

    Now i have looked for replacement elements, but it seems hard to find any. I guess my best option would be to replace them with something similar.
    Do you have any tip for a good equivalent woofer replacement?

    Best regards
    Bjorn
  14. Sam

    Sam New Member

    Finally you show up lol... glad to read your message.

    You know that is much better that your subwoofer amp is not the problem.
    You have many option to replace the drivers with a similar one that have equivalent of not the same characteristics.
    what is important is to know the impedance of the woofers drivers. once you have this information you need to make sure the power that should be at least 250 watts per channel.
    I am not sure yet about the impedance but we can find this information from the internet and 9nce we have this information you will be able to replace them.

    I will verify this and will get back to you.

    See you soon.

    Best Reagards.

    Sam
  15. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi Sam,
    Yes.. so many weeks on different HIFI service firms. Well well, i was part of the problem, because i assumed it was the stage and not the speaker elements. So ofcourse they start to check the amp and cant find whats wrong with it.. etc..
    Anyway, as you say, its much better that the cause is the speaker drivers. I will go to a shop in the city, where they sell thousands of different speaker drivers, its a hifi shop for audiophiles and DIY people.
    Yes, the impedance is important, but as i will deliver my OM-5 there, hopefully they will be able to measure it.
    I will get back to you when theres news to tell.
    Being without my OM-5:s for 2 weeks now and listening to my very old Tannoy j30, feels weird. My Mirage has been intergrated almost as a part of me :)
  16. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi again Sam,
    Sadly they say that they have no equivalent woofers. Their understanding is that this Mirage drivers has an earth pole and 2 + poles(dont know if this is the correct words in English?)
    And normal drivers has just + and - and not this third connector. So they say that its better to send thoose 4 drivers(yes their suggestion is to do it on all 4 woofers) to a place where they will repair the drivers and the coils and make them as new. This is a very expensive process though,, so right now i do not know.. maybe it would hav been better if it was the stage amplifier that was broken..?
    Whats your take on this, Sam?

    Best Regards Bjorn
  17. Sam

    Sam New Member

    Hi Bjorn,

    I hope you are doing fine.

    please take a look on this site:

    Hardware Archives - Speaker Exchange
    https://reconingspeakers.com/product-category/hardware/

    They used to have mirage speakers parts and I am sure they can repair your om5 woofers. So send them an email about the subwoofer drivers reparation.

    Also can you send an email to Andrew to ask him about the 8 inches on 5 drivers specifications and that way you may find it easier to replace the sub woofer drivers.

    I will get back to you and believe me it is worth it to spend time and energy for this wonderful speakers.

    Will talk to you later.

    Sam
  18. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Well thanks for that link and i will check it out Sam
    I went in to an old friends hifi shop in Stockholm today and he told me that he has got a pair of M1si that i could buy.
    They seem to be in mint condition and the price would below 1000USD, i think.
    I think i will buy them and also try to repair/exhange my OM-5 woofers.
    Did you not say earlier that their soundstage is quite similar?
    :)
    Bjorn
  19. Sam

    Sam New Member

    Hi Bjorn ,
    all I can say is WOW.

    those speakers is wonderful and the soundstage is unbelievable. they are fantastic and the base is very articulated and they have a crossover that has been design to take the best if it.

    Now you should be careful about one thing :
    1- start with the midrange drivers :
    there is a good chance that the surround is rot so you need to take off the black cloth to see the midrange surround the driver if it is rot, but if it is the case it is very easy to replace the old surround with a new one. So you have4 midrange that you need to verify.

    If you can not see the midrange ask the dealer to put a music on them to hear the midrange sound.
    2- Make sure that the 4 tweeters are good because if not you will have a very small chance to find the original to replace the broken one.
    3- Verify the bottom wires connection, touch them and see if they are mint.

    Now if everything is just fine, do not wait any minute and buy them immediately.
    the sound is wonderful. I just hope that your amp will be able to drive them well.

    if you can take a picture and send them to my email address: haysami@hotmail.com

    they are biggggg and heavy, but the sound is wonderfulness.

    please let me know soon you buy them.

    Congratulations in advance.

    Best Regards my friend.

    Sam
  20. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi Sam,

    Yes it will be interesting to have a look at them in neext week and also to listen to them.
    Thanks for your advise and tips on what to check.
    Maybe it was the M1 and not M1si, would that be worse or better?

    About my OM-5:s i have also emailed Andrew Welker again, to see if he could help me out on fixing the drivers.
    Been searching for a week now on 10+ different sites(including yours) and no one can help me with original drivers and i have asked 5 different firms in the field of driver replacements, and i have received 5 different suggestions on what woofers i should replace them with.
    That does not feel good - it means that its easy to replace them or it means that they dont have a clue on what they are talking about :)

    One very special and strange thing with the OM-5 Mirage woofer Z4DR//51864 (thats the ID) is that they have 3 connectors and not 2 (plus and minus) as usual.
    I also asked Andrew Welker about what that could mean.
    Sam, do you have a clue why our Woofers has 3 connectors and not 2?

    I will report back to you ASAP, after my meeting with the M1:s

    :)

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