Hi from Canada

Discussion in 'Introduce yourself.' started by Sam, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. Sam

    Sam New Member

    i would love To be part of it. in my last message I was replying to Bjorn. I hope I did not make a mistake.
  2. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Sam,
    Thank you very much for reply to my questions.
    Yes, i also love thoose OM-5 and i gonna keep them :)
    According to your experience, it does not seem value enough to change them with OMD-28 or M-1.
    I have read about the OM-1(the one with the bass element on the side) But it seems quite impossible to get.

    Anyway, thansk again Sam for your review of your fantastic Mirage setup over there :)

    Best Regards
    Bjorn
  3. Sam

    Sam New Member

    You are welcome.

    if you can put your hands on the Mirage M-1 you will have maybe the most wonderful speaker Mirage ever done.
    But as I said in my previous message you should drive them with a solid amp.

    Unfortunately the OM 1 was a fantastic project that never seen the day and was pull out by klipsch who bought Mirage.

    Can you tell me what kind of speakers cables you use for the OM 5?
  4. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hello Sam,
    Ok, will have a look on the web and see if i can find a used pair of M1:s - thanks :)
    My equipment is:
    DAC: m2tech - Young DSD
    Amp: https://www.soundandvision.com/poweramplifiers/707linnch
    Pre amp: http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/b/b4/EXOTIK_InfSht_GB.pdf
    And Linn K400 speaker cable http://www.audioreview.com/product/cables/speaker-cables/linn/k400-bi-wire-loudspeaker-cable.html
    Picture: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-K400-Bi-wire-Speaker-Cables-/202417234380

    Seems to be ok for the om-5:s - but maybe not for a pair of m1?
    Or do you think that i need even more power then Linn Chakra 2200 kan produce?
    And: are you referring to M1 or M1si? - Marc Mickelson on Soundstage had the impression that he was very pleased with the M3si but he preferred om-5 over them.
    What is your take on that?
    Thanks in advance.

    Regards
    Bjorn
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  5. Sam

    Sam New Member


    Hi Bjorn,

    your amp is not bad and can deliver up to 200 watts on 4 ohms load, so it is good enough for high sensitivity speakers like the OM 5 speakers. So I am sure you don't hear distortion even at loud sound &High volume. Now for the Mirage M1 or M-1 si is a different story. The M1 or M-1 si need more power to really shine without any distortion. it may be enough for you if you always listen to a moderate volume but you will not hear their sound quality and even more dangerous with the OMD 28.

    The OMD 28 will make your amp very hot because it will demand much more currant in a very fast pace. So the result is distorted sound and the tweeters will blow up.

    Many reviewers prefer the M-3 si over the M-1 si only because the M 1 or the M-1 si is more demanding then the M-3 si. but believe me the first time I heard my M 3 si I was like wow. this speakers are very articulated speakers as it make you hear so much details what ever the sound level is. So it is more articulated than the OM 5.
    The only weakness of the OM 5 is the midrange drivers as they are very fragile.
    So be careful with the sound level, but the base is wonderful and little bit better than the M-3 si, but the soundstage of the OM 5 is more deeper and bigger than the M 3 si. you see there is no abvious advantage in all the frequency and there is no cut answer in all the situation.

    When I met Andrew Walker ( the main designer of the OM 5 and OMD 28) in Montreal I exchange with him during one hour about all the mirage speakers and he agreed with me specifically for the OMD 28. He even recommand using 2 mono block to drive the OMD 28.

    The M1 and M-1 si is very similar but the demand for the M1 was too much high in the market versus the production capacity so they had to find a way to reduce the total production time to fill the demand and that when the M-1 si appear.

    they used to produce all the drivers including the tweeters that been tuned by hand on each speaker. So they had to replace the original tweeters with different design that don't need to be tuned manually and of oyrse replace the midrange drivers with a bigger one and less complicated design. The result is not too much different in term of sound quality but the resolution was better on the original design comparing to the last version. So this change also made the cross over design easier and with less component than the original.

    Concerning your speakers cables I really know nothing about them so I can not give you any opinion about them. But i can say this that if you buy the M 1 or the M-1 si they will become the weakness link in your system. I am sure Morrow can explain it much better than me.

    I hope I answer all your questions and please be sure that you will appreciate every second of your system.

    Take good care and hope one day will meet each other.
  6. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi again Sam and thank you for your in depth explanations.

    Its fantastic that you had the opportunity to meet Andrew Welker, who took over the developement of Mirage speakers from Ian Paisley.
    About my OM-5:s - its sad that just a week ago, one of the subwoofer amplifiers stopped working. I took the loudspeaker apart and transported the amplifier unit, to a place that has a very good reputation in fixing hifi equipments like this, but they told me this friday, that they cant fix it. In Sweden i dont know any service place for Mirage and i dont think its possible to exhange this amplifier stage with something similar, the crossovers will be different and as i understand it, these ones are 100% aligned for this patricular woofers and tweeters.
    Do you have any idea of a solution?

    It would be very sad, not being able to fix thoose OM-5:s. And i recognize what you write about the deep and wide soundscape they produce. I think the bass in the specs says from 20 or 22 hz and that is very obvious when you play certain kind of music.

    Anyway i cant say that the build quality is bad, i have owned them for 13 years and i have played them almost every day, at least 10 hours/day - they have been amazing and have contributed so much for me and my music life.

    Regarding my speaker cables, they are recommended for Linn premium to almost top of the line speakers that costs at least up to30.000-40.000 USD (they have speakers for more then that ofcourse) wich requires at least 400W/channel - so i trust they will do the job..
    Yes, its would have been very nice to meet and listen to your system, its very rare what you seem to have over there(I assume you live in North America)

    Best regards Bjorn :)
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  7. Sam

    Sam New Member


    Hi Bjorn,

    I am really sorry about your om 5 subwoofer. it is really sad because there is no way you can repair and this subwoofer amp is very special and different than any regular amp. But I am sure there is a solution for it by replacing the one you have with a regular subwoofer amp with the same characteristic in terms of power. Don't forget one thing the original one was not like the one we have at the beginning and because the original design was too strong and was difficult to control they design this one with a special control to not overload the signal. So if I were in this situation I will search in the internet for a spare part that may show up on sale.

    you never you may be lucky to find it on the internet. I will do my best to search one for you and If I find something will let you know.

    Now I am sure that we can find a regular amp to replace the one you have and don't worry about the crossover, all what you need is an amp that will control the signal of low frequency around 22 hz.

    it will not be easy but it is feasible.

    I will get back to you soon.
  8. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi Sam,

    Thank you, yes the "expert" in hifi repairs did not have a clue on how to do it.
    Yes its sad.. but the good and surprising thing is how good its possible to keep up with only one 250W subwoofer - the explanation is that bass freq does not bounce straight forward after reflected against the walls and propagate by bending beyond obstacles. But ofcourse its not the same deep and powerfull bass.
    What do you think of this one: https://emnordic-prod-cdn.azureedge...16057AAF90650504C097BE645E5ED60635/549717.pdf

    Well if i cant repair it, maybe its time for Andrew Welkers latest flag ship creation in omnidirectional/bipolar/omnipolar loudspeekers. I read somewhere that he has said that this series is even better and more close to the ideal concept of omnidirectional solutions.
    https://www.axiomaudio.com/omnidirectional-speaker

    What do you think?
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  9. Sam

    Sam New Member


    Hi Bjorn,

    the last speakers design of Andrew Welker is fantastic, I was at Montreal audio show when I met Andrew for the first time and he showed me this speakers and it is really wow I can't blame you to thinking about it because we are used to the onmipolar speakers and they are wonderful.

    I haven't find yet anything for your OM 5 subwoofers. I will continue searching .

    How are you?

    please let me know if you decide to buy axiom speakers. By the way you know you still have the option of buying a good subwoofer that could replace the broken one.

    please keep in touch Bjorn.

    Best regards

    Sam
  10. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    Hi Sam,
    I am fine, listening to OM-5 with one Subw :-D
    How are you?
    Wow! did you had the pleasure to talk to Andrew about the Axiom Omnidirectional speakers and also to listen to them? If so, could you compare them with yout own Mirage ?
    Would you say that Mr Welker made any improvements from Mirage's former flagship models?

    Thank you for advice.
    Yes i just e-mailed Andrew Welker, to get his opinion on what to replace them with. I told him that i am addicted to the soundstage of OM-5 and asked what models he would suggest as better or equal?
    Ok, so you are suggesting that i could change just the subwoofer? But how would i do that? maybe i could ask a HIFI repair/service place to do it..

    Take care and hope to hear from you soon.

    Best Regards
    Bjorn
  11. Braincooler

    Braincooler New Member

    And i also got a very interesting reply from A Welker:

    Hello Bjorn, I am sorry to hear about your OM-5s. Unfortunately the subwoofer amplifiers were built in house by Mirage and there isn't anything I can suggest to replace it.
    Also, while there are models in the Axiom LFR lineup that I believe will give you better overall performance, none will reproduce the extreme low frequencies that your OM-5s were capable of on their own. That being said, I can make a couple of suggestions, depending on your preferences and listening habits.
    Note that all of the models below will require FOUR amplifier channels, so you would need to add another 2-channel amplifier to your current setup with identical gain.

    If you listening to a lot of music and movies with extreme low frequency content, I would suggest a pair of LFR660s along with one or two EP500 subwoofers.
    If you currently use a subwoofer in your system, or don't require the extreme low frequency performance, I would suggest a pair of LFR1100s.

    In either case, my personal belief is that the Axiom LFR series speakers outperform any of the Mirage OM models in terms of midrange balance, accuracy, and imaging, without losing the immersive sound-field of omnis.

    Thanks, Andrew

    Wow, so Andrew really thinks he developed that omni concept even more - sounds very interesting.
    What do you think Sam?
  12. Sam

    Sam New Member

    Hi Bjorn,

    i an glad tchat Andrew replied to your email, because he does not always reply to his emails.

    Now be careful about the EP500, I know that because I bought it several years ago and I had to change the amplifier of the subwoofer for a noise problem and they send me another one. 2 years after the same problem occurred again, and the sound for music is not articulated as I have with my OM 5 subwoofer. So don't buy the EP500 and there is to many other subwoofer model much better for the same price or less.

    Now concerning his last design it is fine and I am sure it is better than his OMD 28. So he had to add an amplifier to his omnipolar speakers to create a better image that is the main weakness of all the omnipolar mirage speakers and the price is too high but if you can afford it do not hesitate. but didn't not forget that you will need to add another amplifier to your system.

    Also don't expect from Andrew anything else than recommand the axiom speakers over Mirage as he is working there. But if you still looking for an omnipolar speakers axiom lfr 1100 is a very good and rare omnipolar option in the market.

    So please keep in touch and just let me know what you will do.

    Thanks
    Sam

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